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So let's begin our post-election coverage with TK Puer, who is Associate Professor at the Witz School of Governance. So let's get straight into it, TK, and welcome and thank you. Is the ANC now in terminal political decline or is there any realistic path to recovery at this point after the early election results that we've seen so far? Hi, Jeremy. Thanks for having me. Look, I think the ANC has been in decline. What we're simply seeing now is the visible signs of it. And you have to go back to all the way.

2016 to start to see that this trend. So, what you simply are seeing now is the decline which is cementing, which is quite visible. Now, your second part of what does that mean going forward? And is this the end for the ANC? Look, for political parties, with exception, there's always a chance because there's always voters. If you look at the distribution, especially for local government, yes, they're not going to have power in the big metros, bar one. And again, they're going to need a

Coalition for that. But again, I always look at things like turnout, which says that, look, a few people did stay behind, which says that, and I think data always proves it, that the ANC supporters are just not happy with the performance of the ANC. So is it the end? It's only the end if they fail to be able to say, listen, we, and we're not going to use their language of regeneration, but or renewal, if they honestly sit back and say, listen, this is it. Let's just accept it. If they do that, then look, it's going to be the end two or three elections from now.

The ANC is going to be a 10%, if not a 5% party. But I think there's enough people in the ANC who would want this not to be the case. But I don't think it's the current leadership that has the mandate or has got the political capital to be able to sit down and discuss things about how the ANC gets back to some semblance of power. So how much responsibility then, TK, does President Ramaphosa personally accept for this decline, which, as you rightly say, has been a 10-year project? Well, if we look at the numbers,

When he inherited the ANC, obviously you're going to judge it on the back of national numbers. I think it was above 55, if not 59%. Under his ANC, it has gone under 40%. They're losing municipalities left, right, and center. So it's only normal. And again, it's not one person, it's a collective, as the ANC likes to say. But we have to say, this collective, led by the one individual who's been a constant president Ramaphosa, has simply declined to levels where.

I think they should have stepped down at last year's NGC to give themselves a chance at these local government elections. They didn't. So the fault has to go with the headman at the moment, and he simply is the headman at the moment. Because I always put like this: if the roles were reversed, and this was the norm, I think in 2016 and under the presidency of Jacob Zuma, many people are blaming him for the decline of the ANC. And looking at it now, that was a slight decline. I think the same share of burden and blame has to go towards the headman. It just happens to be President Ramaphosa.