702, Monday morning

Then everybody should in and you know collaborate against them. So in fact, when Pop Palazzo, Andrew, even when Pop Palazzo was the DA mayor in Johannesburg, the DA wasn't the leading party in the so that principle is out of the window, really. Yeah, exactly. And the thing is, I'm not in detail of what the issue, the real issues between Herman and Zille is. Maybe it's more personal than anything. Well, then you could argue the.

Reason Herman Mashaba got fired. Because remember, Helen is the one who went and got Heman to come to be recruited as a politician. And Haman was a big fan of Helen Zille. If you go look at the interviews he did, he was raving about Helen and then Helen was engineering, it seems from Hammond's perspective. He's ousting from the DA. And then now it feels like Heman says, pay back time. But I really think these personalities, they just need to, this is politics. The minute you take

It at that level, but Herman Mashaba says, no, it's got nothing to do with anything that about between us. It's just that Helen is a racist and I don't want a racist in Johannesburg. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the last point is that, you know, I think Herman is actually playing very, he's getting leverage. He just wants more leverage out of this negotiation by saying that he doesn't want to go with Helen because he knows Helen is a big piece. And so it makes his negotiation process a bit easier. And I think at the

End strategically, I don't think both parties do want to be together. I mean, not the voters, the voters want the parties to be together. So, I think both parties would rather not be not coalesced with each other because they want to create separation, especially in China. And if they are both in government, they'll also special from a certain point. Oh, yeah, the line is dropping there a bit, Andrew. But I think we've gotten your point. Yeah, but guys, also things change in politics. Herman Mashaba was standing.

On platforms and saying, We will never work with the ANC. And then, what did he do? He went and worked with the ANC in Swani. And when we asked him, oh, but you were saying it emphatically with no fear of contradiction that you don't want to work with the ANC. And then he says, Well, you know, what can I do? This is what people have voted, and this is an opportunity for us to bring change in Tshwane. So these things start with all these big red lines and these demands.

But as the negotiations continue, you'll figure out that those demands are fiddling down. Let's go to some more calls now. Mark, you are the next one in Centurion. What are your thoughts? Hi, yeah, morning, Clem. Look, it's quite easy. People need to look under underlying factors why Herman and Helen obviously can't get along. And like you correctly said, she was the one that recruited them. Then he built that unstable first coalition with the EFF originally to kick out the ANC. And what did Herman do?