702, Thursday afternoon

Some of your colleagues, though, in the GNU might test the way you frame that. I mean, there are all sorts of problems with the governing coalition at national level. But, for example, if you look at someone like Leon Schreiber, who really seems to me at least to have taken home affairs by the scruff of the neck and said, okay, well, this is what I'm able to do within this framework, and I'm going to do it as well as I can. I mean, is that not as much of a model as the scenario?

You've just set out that yes, it's not going to be perfect, but we can do this well enough. I mean, presumably, well enough is what you're aiming for or not? Something higher? Well, I like to aim at something higher, but I'm prepared to settle for well enough if it is well enough. I mean, if you look at a portfolio like Home Affairs, Home Affairs is a portfolio that doesn't have many dependencies, and by that I mean you don't need other

People to do their job well, for you to do your job in home affairs. And then you can set up all kinds of new systems with new technologies and get really good outcomes quickly. Obviously, when you are doing places where a lot of people who are living illegally in South Africa are there, then you do have a dependency on the South African Police Service, for example, because they have to help you do the exercise. But by and large,

Home Affairs does not have many dependencies on other departments. And so if you're the Minister of Home Affairs, you can achieve a lot on your own. In local government, it's very, very hard to do that. But there are some places where you could do that. And it would be important to be able to show that where the DA has a portfolio, we're able to deliver on it. Another massively complicating factor about Jobuk is that there really is no money.

There is no money. The pot is empty, the flask is drained, there's really nothing in it, and the billing system is in chaos, the corruption is endemic, money is draining from the city, and there are many competing criminal syndicates vying for control of the purse. And that is a very, very serious problem in Job. And unless you can get

On top of that, you can't succeed in anything. So, if we were, let's say, to do a coalition, it has to be an agreement on an anti-corruption strategy that everybody would have to adhere to, and we would have to get it signed and sealed, because otherwise, there are going to be people who are going to have too much of a vested interest in the corruption that is currently carrying on and who will do their best to prevent us from clearing it out.

Helen Zille, thank you. DA's mayoral candidate for Johannesburg. Give us your thoughts on the interview and what you heard. And if you voted for the DA, for example, I mean, what lengths would you expect them to go to put a coalition together? How much compromise would you expect them to make? And do you share Helen Zille's view that if you can't get a significant enough sense that people are going to work with you for the same purpose?