702, Tuesday evening

That would manage the railway system to allow independent train operators and Transnet itself to use the same railways in a neutral way. Professor Jan Havencha is a logistics professor at the University of Stellenbosch and director of the Gain Group. Jan, good evening. Thanks for your time once again. So we've seen from Eskom how complicated this kind of process can be, where you're taking a function out of a big SOE. How is this supposed to work in Transnet?

Yes, it can be quite complicated, but this is probably the best news I've heard this year. And it didn't start with this press release. It actually came from Operation Berlin Lela. It started with the Minister of Finance's midterm budget speech, where on page two of the speech he made the same statement about what's going to happen with both the ports and the rail infrastructure of Transnet, where he said it will be separated from Transnet. And that's the best news I've heard.

Heard in a long time. It's complicated, but it's completely necessary. Without that, we just got stuck. It's an important step, a very important step going forward. And I'm pleased in the way it's been announced. I heard in your earlier when you announced the program and how it's going to work, you talked about Transnet doing this. And most importantly, it's not Transnet doing this. I think one has to read that carefully. Operations will envela treasury through oversight.

Specifically mentioned the presidency and the Department of Transport is going to do this. And leaving this to Transnet was probably the big mistake. I wouldn't call it a mistake, but thinking that Transnet themselves is going to do this, you can't do this to yourself. You can't tear yourself apart. And I know it through various discussions with Transnet, whenever you bring up the word unbundling, and clearly you can understand it, that the management of Transnet often will say to

You, even if it's not in public, I've not been instructed to unbundle this entity. And it's correct. It's the ownership, and it's the shareholder that should do that. And so I'm very glad that we actually reached that point to do that. But there's a little bit of ways to go, and it is complicated, you're right. And in both cases, the port authority case and in the rail infrastructure case, it's complicated. But in order for people to understand how it would work, if you imagine yourself.